SC2 Island Defense

Builders

New Builder: Elemental Templar [REQ]

Submit unique and well-thought out builder suggestions here.

Moderator: Development

Do or do not?

Do
7
70%
Do Not
2
20%
I'MMA TRY, YODA LAWL (don't care)
1
10%
 
Total votes : 10

New Builder: Elemental Templar [REQ]

Postby Tehr » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:59 am

Image
Elemental Templar

Type: Army, Baser
Difficulty: ||||||||||||||||||||
Movement Speed: 3.5 BASE
Attack Speed: 1.5 BASE
Attack Damage: 125 BASE
Health: 150 health, 150 shields
Total Amount of Resources Required: Varies by playstyle: Some possibilities are denoted in the Information subsection of the Units section
Suggested Model:

    Spoiler: show


        Image
        Tassadar


        Image
        Preserver


        Image
        Zeratul





Information

    Lore:
    Spoiler: show
      Approximately 3719 years before the creation of the Origin Calendar, a race known as the Protoss were created by the ancient, space-faring species known as the Xel’Naga in the bowels of Aiur, forged into hardy beings of honor, dedication, and bravery. Advanced to sentience and beyond from a hunter-gather species within the span of a few years, the Protoss quickly developed into a race of pure technological power, transcending past whatever their makers thought such a newly-birthed race was capable of. Within forty years of their creation, the Protoss had developed a governmental theocracy ruled by the dominating religion of their race.

      But for every religion, there is a counter religion. Shirking the beliefs considered central to Protoss morals, a religion known as Tenarism sprung into being, led by a creature known only as Raszhul, whose progeny would one day make up the most psionically potent beings in Protoss history. Regardless of his own psychic ability and prestige, however, Tenarist practices of sacrificing acolytes in primitive rituals dedicated to the forces of nature were quickly shunned, although they somehow continued under immense secrecy. After a fatal fiasco involving a despicable Tenarist prophet and the child of the Prelate of Aiur, the religion was banned from all practicing, and the leader, Raszhul, was sentenced to death before the Council of Aiur for trespasses against creations, a verdict to be carried out immediately. In the final minutes of his life, Raszhul seemed rather amused, as if he considered himself more powerful than the Protoss Council controlling the fate of his life. As the plasma fusion generators lit to life and prepared to wrench soul from body, Raszhul smiled mockingly, lifted his chin, and exploded in a cacophony of ear-splitting sound and blinding light. Fraught with confusion, the Council of Aiur was at a loss to know what to do. Eventually, their deliberation ended, and one by one, they decided that the threat was over, and returned to their politics and governing.

      But little to their knowledge, on the remote, desolate world of Xenaraxis, Raszhul had unlocked the secret of immortality, and was simply biding his time, training new, more powerful lieutenants to do his bidding. By any educated reckoning, he may have been alive before the Protoss were ever touched by the Xel'Naga, placing his age orders of magnitude longer than any observed Protoss in history... and definitely the most evil and dreaded to ever exist.

      But no matter how evil Raszhul is, there is always something worse – a race of beings considered so evil that their eradication is paramount, and perhaps justifies the pardoning of Raszhul to facilitate their hopeful destruction:

      The Titans.


    Description:
    Spoiler: show
      The TL;DR Description of the Elemental Templar:
        You have units. These units serve as workers, towers, walls, and army units. You combine units (like changeling) into better units. These units are workers, towers, walls, and army units. You can continue combining units together to make stronger and stronger units, at the price of having less of them. All units serve as workers, towers, walls, and army units.

      The Elemental Templar utilizes workers (“Acolytes”) that can either be left as they are (as workers), or upgraded to serve as army units, workers, towers, and walls. The weak and relatively useless basic (pre-combined) Acolytes have a low supply cost and can be used en masse to harvest from trees all around the map. The more advanced the disciple is, the more efficiently it harvests, the higher its supply cost is, and the more deadly and useful it is in general.

      The Elemental Templar can either use the bulk of its supply to create a base or a motley smattering of assorted units in an army that can harvest wood while it is inactive.

      In most cases, any player who has an Elemental Templar will likely end up basing, as their towers are quite powerful if you choose the right damage type, and even more so if you get the upgrades to increase their type-damage even more. It is unlikely that many Elemental Templars will earn enough gold or wood to be able to create a Prophet, although it is definitely a boon in late-game bases with its enormous DPS and incredibly helpful buffs and debuffs, since it has a range long enough that it can sit behind most turrets and still damage any attackers. Vindicators would be more common in the Elemental Templar's playstyle due to their slightly cheaper costs, and the ability to debuff attackers, although none of the playstyles are so difficult to attain that they will not be used at all.




Units

        INFORMATION
        Spoiler: show
          The "Additional Damage" Part is NOT enabled by default. You have to train it.
          Towers with an Exhaustion component deal 25% additional damage to MECHANICAL units, and 25% less damage to BIOLOGICAL units
          Towers with a Pain component deal 25% additional damage to BIOLOGICAL units, and 25% less damage to PSIONIC units
          Towers with a Weakness component deal 25% additional damage to PSIONIC units, and 25% less damage to MECHANICAL units
          Towers with both an Exhaustion and a Pain component deal 25% additional damage to MECHANICAL units, and 25% less damage to PSIONIC units
          Towers with both an Exhaustion and a Weakness component deal 25% additional damage to PSIONIC units, and 25% less damage to BIOLOGICAL units
          Towers with both a Weakness and a Pain component deal 25% additional damage to BIOLOGICAL units, and 25% less damage to MECHANICAL units


          To evolve into a higher tier, the selected unit must be nearby the other unit required for the transformation. The transformation takes 3 seconds to complete, and during that time both units are stunned. If the transformation is cancelled or interrupted, both units remain and the cost of the evolution is refunded. If the transformation is completed, both units are consumed to create the evolved version.

          Converting from a tower to a unit or vice versa takes five seconds, and during that time, the unit has no armor and takes 25% additional damage, as well as loses all collision so that any unit, friendly or enemy, can path through it.

          Disciples and Elementals of Weakness act as walls as well as towers with 500 / 650 health, respectively, while non-Weakness Disciples and Elementals have only 250 / 350 health, respectively.


          It takes 47500 wood and 175 gold to get a single Prophet, so don't expect to pop an early T5, or claim that it's incredibly overpowered. If you have max supply of workers wooding constantly, you'll only really achieve a Prophet after about 30 minutes of gameplay (About 5 minutes left until Bonus Gold), and that's assuming you are completely uninterrupted, and can still get enough gold to create it. A single Prophet in tower form will work about as well as a 30-Tower Transcendental Base without ARC upgrades, and with a Monolith stalker; however, you'll have additional room to be able to fit some kind of Army or support in the area, although placement might be tough with a 5x5 tower.

          Likewise, it takes 14000 wood and 65 gold to unlock the ability to create T4 Vindicators, and 5700 wood and 10 gold past that for every Vindicator you build. To get supply capped on Vindicators, you need approximately 42500 wood and 115 gold, which would be a base that deals approximately 1200 damage per second.

          To get a 30-Tower 10-Wall T2 base, you need 15000 wood. Your base will be slightly better than a T2 Zergling base if the Titan's type is weak against the Towers you chose. If the Titan's type is strong against the Towers you chose, you'll do about as well as a T1 Zergling base, which means you should be choosing your Tower types very carefully. If the Titan's type is neither weak nor strong against the Towers you chose, you'll do about as well as a half-Prismatic half-Advanced base.

          To get a 30-Tower 10-Wall T3 base, you need 40000 wood and 45 gold. Your base will be as powerful as a Transcendental Base with ARC upgrades if the Titan's type is weak against the Towers you chose. If the Titan's type is strong against the Towers you chose, you'll do about as well as a Prismatic Base with ARC upgrades. If the Titan's type is neither weak nor strong against the Towers you chose, you'll do about as well as a Transcendental Base without ARC upgrades.

    Tier 1
    Spoiler: show
      T1 - 1 supply, No cost, 2 seconds train time

        Acolyte - Created by training from a Nexus
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Acolyte can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 4 wood returned every 15 seconds
            • Upgrade into a T2 Disciple
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • The Acolyte CANNOT convert into a tower


    Tier 2
    Spoiler: show
      T2 - 2 supply, 1000 wood, 5 gold, Requires Rift Generator

        Disciple of Air - Created by upgrading ONE Acolyte
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Disciple of Air can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 5 wood returned every 7.5 seconds
            • Detect enemies within radius 6
            • Locate enemy positions with radar sensors within radius 12
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • The Disciple of Air CANNOT convert into a tower
            • The Disciple of Air CANNOT attack

      T2 - 2 supply, 300 wood

        Disciple of Pain - Created by upgrading ONE Acolyte
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Disciple of Pain can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 5 wood returned every 7.5 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Combine with another T2 Disciple to form a T3 Elemental in a process which takes 3 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Burn the target by 25 damage over 6 seconds. Each Disciple can only apply one application, and each successive attack renews the duration.
            • Attack at 1.5 attack speed
            • Attack at 22.5 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Disciple of Pain can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Burn the target for 5 damage per stack over 5 seconds, for a maximum of 10 stacks
            • Attack at 1.5 attack speed
            • Attack at 36 damage

        Disciple of Exhaustion - Created by upgrading ONE Acolyte
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Disciple of Exhaustion can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 5 wood returned every 7.5 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Combine with another T2 Disciple to form a T3 Elemental in a process which takes 3 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Slow the target's attack and movement speed by 10% for 6 seconds. Does not stack.
            • Attack at 1.0 attack speed
            • Attack at 15 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Disciple of Exhaustion can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Slow the target's attack and movement speed by 3% per stack for 4 seconds, for a maximum of 10 stacks
            • Attack at 1.0 attack speed
            • Attack at 24 damage

        Disciple of Weakness - Created by upgrading ONE Acolyte
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Disciple of Weakness can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 5 wood returned every 7.5 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Combine with another T2 Disciple to form a T3 Elemental in a process which takes 3 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Reduce the damage done by the target by 10% for 6 seconds. Does not stack.
            • Attack at 2.0 attack speed
            • Attack at 30 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Disciple of Weakness can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Deals 30% damage to a nearby target, and 15% damage to another nearby target
            • Attack at 2.0 attack speed
            • Attack at 48 damage
            • Serve as a wall with 500 health


    Tier 3 (HYBRID)
    Spoiler: show
      T3 (Hybrid) - 3 supply, 150 wood

        Elemental of Weakness and Exhaustion - Created by combining ONE Disciple of Weakness and ONE Disciple of Exhaustion
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Elemental of Weakness and Exhaustion can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 8 wood returned every 6.65 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Combine with five other T3 Elementals to form a T4 Vindicator
            • Reduce the damage done by the target by 15% and slow the target's attack and movement speed by 15% for 6 seconds. Does not stack.
            • Attack at 1.5 attack speed
            • Attack at 33.75 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Elemental of Weakness and Exhaustion can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Slow the target by 4.5% over 4 seconds per stack, and 3% over 4 seconds per stack to a nearby target, and 1.5% over 4 seconds to another nearby target, for a maximum of 10 stacks
            • Attack at 1.5 attack speed
            • Attack at 45 damage

        Elemental of Exhaustion and Pain - Created by combining ONE Disciple of Exhaustion and ONE Disciple of Pain
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Elemental of Exhaustion and Pain can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 8 wood returned every 6.65 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Combine with five other T3 Elementals to form a T4 Vindicator
            • Slow the target's attack and movement speed by 15% and burn the target by 32.5 damage over 6 seconds. Each Disciple can only apply one application of the damage over time effect, and each successive attack renews the duration. The slow effect does not stack.
            • Attack at 1.25 attack speed
            • Attack at 28.125 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Elemental of Exhaustion and Pain can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Slow the target by 4.5% over 4 seconds per stack, and 3% over 4 seconds per stack to a nearby target, and 1.5% over 4 seconds to another nearby target, for a maximum of 10 stacks
            • Attack at 1.25 attack speed
            • Attack at 37.5 damage

        Elemental of Pain and Weakness - Created by combining ONE Disciple of Pain and ONE Disciple of Weakness
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Elemental of Pain and Weakness can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 8 wood returned every 6.65 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Combine with five other T3 Elementals to form a T4 Vindicator
            • Reduce the damage done by the target by 15% and burn the target for 32.5 damage per second over 6 seconds. Each Disciple can only apply one application of the damage over time effect, and each successive attack renews the duration. The slow effect does not stack.
            • Attack at 1.75 attack speed
            • Attack at 39.375 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Elemental of Pain and Weakness can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Burn the target for 6 damage per second over 4 seconds, and 5 damage over 5 seconds to a nearby target, and 2 damage over 4 seconds to another nearby target, for a maximum of 10 stacks
            • Attack at 1.75 attack speed
            • Attack at 52.5 damage


    Tier 3 (PURE)
    Spoiler: show
      T3 (Pure) - 3 supply, 150 wood

        Elemental of Exhaustion - Created by combining TWO Disciples of Exhaustion
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Elemental of Exhaustion can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 8 wood returned every 6.65 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Combine with five other T3 Elementals to form a T4 Vindicator
            • Slow the target's attack and movement speed by 25% for 6 seconds. Does not stack.
            • Attack at 1.0 attack speed
            • Attack at 22.5 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Elemental of Exhaustion can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Slows by 6% per stack for 4 seconds, for a maximum of 10 stacks.
            • Attack at 1.0 attack speed
            • Attack at 30 damage

        Elemental of Pain - Created by combining TWO Disciples of Pain
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Elemental of Pain can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 8 wood returned every 6.65 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Combine with five other T3 Elementals to form a T4 Vindicator
            • Burn the target by 40 damage over 6 seconds. Each Disciple can only apply one application of the damage over time effect, and each successive attack renews the duration.
            • Attack at 1.5 attack speed
            • Attack at 33.75 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Elemental of Pain can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Burns for 8 damage per stack over 4 seconds, for a maximum of 10 stacks.
            • Attack at 1.5 attack speed
            • Attack at 45 damage

        Elemental of Weakness - Created by combining TWO Disciples of Weakness
          UNIT
              1x1
            While in Unit form, the Elemental of Weakness can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 8 wood returned every 6.65 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Combine with five other T3 Elementals to form a T4 Vindicator
            • Reduce the damage done by the target by 25% for 6 seconds. Does not stack.
            • Attack at 2.0 attack speed
            • Attack at 45 damage
          TOWER
              2x2
            While in Tower form, the Elemental of Weakness can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Deals 60% damage to a nearby target, and 30% damage to another nearby target.
            • Attack at 2.0 attack speed
            • Attack at 60 damage
            • Serve as a wall with 650 health


    Tier 4
    Spoiler: show
      T4 - 30 supply, 1200 wood, 10 gold

        Vindicator - Created by combining SIX Elementals of any type
          UNIT
              2x2
            While in Unit form, the Vindicator can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 42 wood returned every 3 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Combine with four other T4 Vindicators to form a T5 Prophet in a process which takes 15 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Blink within range 10 on a 15 second cooldown. Does not need vision of the target area.
            • Increase the attack speed of all allied units and structures by 15% within radius 4
            • Attack at 0.3 attack speed
            • Attack at 55 damage
            • Pierce 100% of armor
          TOWER
              3x3
            While in Tower form, the Vindicator can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Reduce enemies’ attack speed, movement speed, and damage by 25%, and deal 25 damage per second for 3 seconds to all enemies in radius 3 of its target. Does not stack
            • Attack at 0.5 attack speed
            • Attack at 120 damage
            • Pierce 100% of armor


    Tier 5
    Spoiler: show
      T5 - 150 supply, 5000 wood, 55 gold

        Prophet - Created by combining FIVE Vindicators
          UNIT
              2x2
            While in Unit form, the Prophet can:
            • Harvest at a rate of 200 wood returned every 2.5 seconds
            • Convert into a tower in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Be nuked and take spell damage
            • Blink within range 10. Does not need vision of the target area. No cooldown.
            • Increase the attack speed of all allied units and structures by 25% within radius 4
            • Reduce enemies’ attack speed, movement speed, and damage by 2%, and deal 6 damage per second for 3 seconds to all enemies in radius 4 of its target for a maximum of 10 stacks. Deals 25 damage per attack to a nearby target, and 10 damage per attack to another nearby target.
            • Attack at 0.5 attack speed
            • Attack at 500 damage
            • Pierce 100% of armor
          TOWER
              5x5
            While in Tower form, the Prophet can:
            • Convert into a unit in a process which takes 5 seconds
            • Reduce enemies’ attack speed, movement speed, and damage by 3%, and deal 10 damage per second for 3 seconds to all enemies in radius 4 of its target for a maximum of 10 stacks. Deals 10 damage per attack to a nearby target, and 5 damage per attack to another nearby target.
            • Attack at 0.1 attack speed
            • Attack at 150 damage
            • Pierce 100% of armor




Abilities

    Escape Abilities
    Spoiler: show
      Sacrifice - 60 second cooldown, 10 range
        The Elemental Templar flexes its control over the maniacal devotion of its followers, causing the Elemental or Disciple to sacrifice itself. Neither Vindicators nor Prophets can be sacrified. Effect varies on which follower was sacrificed. After sacrificing a unit, this ability changes to whatever ability was earned from the sacrifice to be used at a later time. Each Sacrifice is a one-time use, but the ability earned from Sacrificing does not expire if unused.

            Exhaustion - Slows the target by 25% for 3 seconds
            Pain - Lowers the vision range of the target to 2 for 5 seconds
            Weakness - Stuns enemies for 0.75 seconds in radius 2
            Pure Exhaustion - Slows the target by 50% for 3 seconds
            Pure Pain - Lowers the vision range of the target to 1 for 6 seconds
            Pure Weakness - Stuns enemies for 1.5 seconds in radius 2
            Exhaustion/Pain - Slows the target by 40% for 2 seconds and lowers the vision range of the target to 1 for 3 seconds afterwards
            Pain/Weakness - Stuns enemies for 0.5 seconds and lowers the vision range of enemies to 1 for 3.5 seconds in radius 2
            Weakness/Exhaustion - Stuns enemies for 0.5 seconds and subsequently slows by 33% for 2.5 seconds in radius 2




Buildings

    Advanced Buildings
    Spoiler: show


    Image
    Rift Generator

        Information: Advanced Research Center
        Size: 3x3
        Cost: 15 gold
        Bounty: 150 experience, 3 gold
        Health: 150 health, 150 shields
        Armor: Standard structure armor
        Model: Variation #2 in Doodads:Structures titled “Aiur Protoss Building Small”
        Skills Available:
          Exhaustion Mastery
            Grants towers classified as Exhaustion or Exhaustion/Pain additional damage against Mechanical Units.
              Level 1: 1500 wood, 5 gold
          Weakness Mastery
            Grants towers classified as Weakness or Weakness/Exhaustion additional damage against Psionic Units.
              Level 1: 1500 wood, 5 gold
          Pain Mastery
            Grants towers classified as Pain or Pain/Weakness additional damage against Biological Units.
              Level 1: 1500 wood, 5 gold




    Basic Buildings
    Spoiler: show


    Image
    Nexus

        Information: Wood Return Point
        Size: 2x2
        Cost: 10 wood
        Bounty: 50 experience and 2 gold
        Health: 250 health
        Armor: Standard Structure Armor
        Model: Nexus




    Image
    Monument

        Information: SUPPLY - You can only build one (1) of these structures, but it grants you supply (just as Spectre Starport grants supply). The amount of supply granted is initially 56, but can be upgraded.
        Size: 2x2
        Cost: 100 wood
        Bounty: 50 experience, 3 gold
        Health: 200 health, 300 shields
        Armor: Standard structure armor
        Model: Variation #2 in Doodads:Props titled "Temple Statue"
        Skills Available:
          Mind Power
            Allows the Elemental Templar to sway more minds to his cause.
              Level 1: 3000 wood, Increases Supply Cap to 106
              Level 2: 3000 wood, Increases Supply Cap to 150, Requires Rift Generator




    Image
    Power Source

        Information: Basic Research Center
        Size: 3x3
        Cost: 500 wood
        Bounty: 50 experience, 3 gold
        Health: 150 health, 150 shields
        Armor: Standard structure armor
        Model: Variation #1 in Doodads:Structures titled “Aiur Protoss Building Small”
        Skills Available:
          Fanatical Followers
            Allows your followers to morph into stronger forms
              Level 1: 2500 wood, 15 gold, Unlocks T3 Units, Requires Rift Generator
              Level 2: 5000 wood, 20 gold, Unlocks T4 Units
              Level 3: 20 gold, Unlocks T5 Units




    CHANGELOG
    Spoiler: show
    • 11/8/12 - 19:34 - Reposted a completely revised version of the Elemental Templar
    • 11/9/12 - 17:14 - Added [REQ] tag as well as slightly updated the description
    • 11/9/12 - 18:52 - Moved Abilities underneath Units so as to ensure the reader has information about the Units before reading what each does
    • 1/27/13 - 14:11 - Nerfed slowing properties of Exhaustion-based Escape Effects
    • 2/8/13 - 22:01 - Converted to Terran
    • 2/17/13 - 10:39 - Converted back to Protoss, changed tower names
    • 2/22/13 - 10:48 - Changed wooding speeds to (1800 + 600(Tier Level))
Last edited by Tehr on Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:49 pm, edited 68 times in total.
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User avatar
Tehr
Demonicus
 
Posts: 6538
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Somewhere Tehrific
Battle.Net: Tehr.301, Tehr#1477

Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby Arawn » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:49 am

Good concept, has definite promise, and I think you should work on it some more and smooth out some of the details. Damage vs. X is an intriguing design, it's definitely new.
Even though this is how I feel towards his builder, I had to post this as Tehr threatened me imaginary harm if I did not!
I'm hoping that at least the beginning upgrades will be somewhat cheap, as there are 8 tiers, vs the 3/4 we have in Live. What will distinguish the units from the towers? Will you be able to morph fire to grass to water or some such? You mentioned a 144 supply harvester, wut? That seems like a lot of supply, which I could understand if the Geomancer is just sitting in a base not doing anything, but that's no fun... Then it couldn't have an army, nor could it have towers. How much supply would each tower use? Would upgraded ones be the same supply? Vindicator/Prophet use more? Will there be melee and ranged units or just one or the other? Will, say, Grass units be tanky, fire units dpsy, and water units healy? :-b Also, what are his escape abilities? Will the towers and units be the same supply?

Just a few of my thoughts.
Arawn
SCV
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:20 pm
Battle.Net: Arawn 832

Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby Tehr » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:43 am

So to specify, this builder doesn't have "workers" in the normal sense of the word. It has units which can harvest, serve as army units, and serve as towers/walls. To be a successful Geomancer, you need to balance your wood production/consumption VERY carefully, because instead of having 1 worker = 5/6 towers (Zergling, Zealot, Marine), 1 worker = 1 tower. That means you have to have a base just strong enough to fend off a Titan, and have the rest of your units wooding constantly to be able to keep up with the death of your wall units.

Here's an example. Think of a Zealot. You have your 25 workers (150 in the Geomancer's case). To make a cannon, you have to move your worker to where you want that cannon, then click a morph button. The worker becomes a T1 cannon. You can also move two workers next to each other, then combine them together to form a slightly more powerful worker that harvests just as fast as the previous two workers combined. You can convert that worker into a tower if you wish, or use him to harvest (use up less trees), or you can stick him in the lane to snipe a titan. Or you can morph two more workers into that second level worker, then combine the two 2nd level workers into a third level worker, which woods just as fast as the two 2nd level workers combined, or the four 1st level workers that made the level 2 worker.

Arawn wrote:Good concept, has definite promise, and I think you should work on it some more and smooth out some of the details. Damage vs. X is an intriguing design, it's definitely new.
Tehr makes me all hot and bothered
I'm hoping that at least the beginning upgrades will be somewhat cheap, as there are 8 tiers, vs the 3/4 we have in Live.
First three will be wood-only, fourth will require gold building(and will be equal with Transcendental, but require 4x more supply per tower), (Subject to change. Check the unit cost in the OP for real costs) fifth will require gold, sixth will require more gold, seventh will require second gold building, eighth will require second gold building (it's like a super-TH, pretty much. If you don't have a base and don't want to set one up (or if it's about to break) you can just convert them all to unit form and upgrade into maximum.)
What will distinguish the units from the towers?
I'm thinking that they will either be different unit models or they will be different colors and different sizes of the same model, with different projectile models.
Will you be able to morph fire to grass to water or some such?
You can only morph into specific towers, and only up/downgrade. You cannot morph a T2 tower into another T2 tower, although you can morph a T2 tower into two T1 units, then morph them into a different T2 tower (assuming you had the required workers)
You mentioned a 144 supply harvester, wut? That seems like a lot of supply, which I could understand if the Geomancer is just sitting in a base not doing anything, but that's no fun... Then it couldn't have an army, nor could it have towers.
Read below. Harvester = Unit = Tower
How much supply would each tower use? Would upgraded ones be the same supply? Vindicator/Prophet use more?
Supply is indicated to the right of the tower/unit names. The maximum unit, the Prophet, is not only a tower but a unit (TH-style) as well, in addition to being able to harvest.
Will there be melee and ranged units or just one or the other?
To be determined, but I MIGHT add a rather random spread across each tier. One will be long-range, one will be faster AS, one will be high damage, etc etc. Not sure if that's what I want, however. I am currently planning on having them all vary on their range.
Will, say, Grass units be tanky, fire units dpsy, and water units healy?
As of now, the different tower types does nothing more than increase its damage versus a specific unit type. Some units/towers (such as Granite) will have much higher health than their equi-tier counterparts, and would thus serve as tanks. I don't want any healing abilities for any of the basic towers/units/workers, although I may add a minor AoE healing ability to the Guardian
:-b Also, what are his escape abilities?
So far, I haven't really thought of any escape abilities, but I was considering having the Geomancer "sacrifice" a basic T1 acolyte for temporary invulnerability, increased MS, AoE slow debuff, or any other of a number of escape abilities.
Will the towers and units be the same supply?
Units and Towers are the exact same thing. Imagine that they're all new versions of spore crawlers or spine crawlers. They can be uprooted and act as an army unit, or they can become towers and be stationary, but gain an increase to damage/attack speed.
Just a few of my thoughts.
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Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby HunkofSteel » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:02 am

Not sure how it will be done, but seems like a psuedo-changeling and spectre together. I get really confused over its role. Seems to me it is an everything-I-can-do type.
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Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby Tecness2 » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:38 am

You have one too many lists. And good concept.
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Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby Keledrath » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:59 am

This is a very interesting idea. As has been mentioned, it needs an escape. My other concern is that, with units = towers/wall, that implies movable walls that aren't horribly slow. Which is dangerous, since if you can run them past the titan during a siege and deploy behind it, you trap the Titan.
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Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby Tehr » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:25 pm

Keledrath wrote:This is a very interesting idea. As has been mentioned, it needs an escape. My other concern is that, with units = towers/wall, that implies movable walls that aren't horribly slow. Which is dangerous, since if you can run them past the titan during a siege and deploy behind it, you trap the Titan.


The idea is for the conversion between unit and tower to take time (such as a spore or spine crawler) and that the tower takes significantly more damage while being converted either way, similar to that of an IT/Baneling egg.

Also, it will definitely have an escape ability, since I believe it should be classified as "medium". Although builders considered as "hard" are quite enjoyable for skilled players, I think that there needs to be more of a ladder of difficulty, which would afford new and moderately experienced players enjoyable roles and builders to play as. As I mentioned in reply to Arawn's post, I'm considering something to do with sacrificing T1 Acolytes in exchange for a temporary MS buff or something of the like.

HunkofSteel wrote:Not sure how it will be done, but seems like a psuedo-changeling and spectre together. I get really confused over its role. Seems to me it is an everything-I-can-do type.


It's not an "everything-I-can-do type" builder so much as a baser that gives much more flexibility over current basers. For example, you can choose to have only towers (and a few harvesters), or you can choose to go pure-army. If you want, you can even choose to combine all of your units together into one powerful unit (costing 144 of your 150 supply, along with a possibility of gold/wood), and micro that.

You may not agree, but I don't think that calling it a pseudo changeling/spectre conglomeration is fair. That's like saying other basers are too similar to Marine. All basers must share the same underlying constant; they must have some way to damage the enemy, be it through units or towers, and they must have a way of preventing the enemy from penetrating the base, be it through units or walls. The same goes for an Army builder. It must construct units to potentially hunt down and kill the Titan/Minions, either through fodder-units and a powerful damaging unit (Dark Zealots with a Dark Templar, for example) or through a powerful collaboration of a faux-base setup, with "wall" units and "cannon" units (like a Baneling army).
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Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby Listener » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:14 pm

How will your escape work early game?
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Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby Keledrath » Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:27 pm

A point with the escape: the T3 sacrifice should be a larger radius. Radius 2 means the Titan is in melee range and has almost certainly already hit you once (Beastmaster has a similar effect in his escape ability).

Also, I would swap the T1 and T2 effects. Escapes should be reliable. the T1 escape is utterly unreliable, since it creates no distance. The move speed should also probably be buffed, since it just equalizes your speed with the titan.
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Re: New Builder: Geomancer (Work in Progress)

Postby Tehr » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:48 am

Keledrath wrote:A point with the escape: the T3 sacrifice should be a larger radius. Radius 2 means the Titan is in melee range and has almost certainly already hit you once (Beastmaster has a similar effect in his escape ability).

Also, I would swap the T1 and T2 effects. Escapes should be reliable. the T1 escape is utterly unreliable, since it creates no distance. The move speed should also probably be buffed, since it just equalizes your speed with the titan.


I was intending on having the escape ability be difficult to use.

I'll probably increase the radius on the T3 sacrifice to 3, MAYBE 4, but I want to make sure it's not too powerful. If I were to swap the T1 and T2 effects, I'd have to increase either the armor or the size of the shield, in order to make it "better" because you're sacrificing a unit of higher quality. The intention was to have the strongest escape abilities come from the higher tiers.

With that in mind, do you still think it ought to be changed?

p.s. Numbers are definitely subject to change.

EDIT:
T1 and T2 have no tech requirements, and are relatively free. T2 costs only 75 wood. So for the most part, it'd a personal call on which one you want. I would probably choose T1 for Immo and T2 for the rest.
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